Monday, June 18, 2007

Athens!

I need to start this post by apologizing to Rhodes. I was really angry while I was writing about Rhodes and I just didn't give the place a fair shake. Between the Lyme disease and the crazy photosensitivity I have from the antibiotics, the sprained ankle, and somehow losing 200 euro, I just needed to be pissed off at something, and the best thing I could come up with was Rhodes (and Greece in general). This is of course irrational, as all of the above could or would have happened to me no matter where in the world I might have been. I really ought to have been thankful for certain things. For instance, I have now had first-hand experience with medical care in a country with nationalized medicine. When it was apparent to me that I had a Lyme disease, i had a choice to go to either a public clinic or a private one. I wasn't picky, and just went to the first one we could find which happened to be a private clinic with a orthopedist and a dermatologist. I was expecting that I would have to rack up about 500$ or so on my credit card for private care, but at that point I was desperate and didn't feel like inquiring about whether I would be treated at a public clinic (as a non-tax-paying foreigner). So, after the diagnosis was done and the prescription was written, I asked, "How much do I owe you and do you take Visa?" He replied, "The charge is 60 euro, and I can take Visa but I don't usually, it will take a moment." I dazedly responded to this by handing him 60 euro in cash and walked out of the clinic to go next door to the pharmacy, where I purchased my 10 day, prescribed supply of doxycyline antibiotic for, drum roll please, 6.35 euro. That's it. For 66.35 euro and about 20 minutes of my time, I had a diagnosis and prompt treatment for Lyme disease from a private clinic. Nationalized health care is obviously putting pricing pressure on the private clinics. I am supposing that the private clinics would provide free or nominally costly care for the trade-off of a potentially longer wait, and I also suppose that there is a certain income tax burden that must be shouldered by Greek citizens, but fuck it. I still think it is totally worth it. In this instance, I am quite happy to tolerate government price controls. Besides, if highly skilled, one-of-a-kind, so-called "specialist", super-doctors really want to make the crazy money, they can move their practice to the Cayman Islands and still see all their same patients. For routine, basic care though, I think this nationalization scheme is the way to go. I think capitalism works best for goods and services where demand may be elastic (like televisions and Internet access), but for inelasticly demanded things (like food and drugs) I really think that some kind of government regulation of prices or distribution is the best way to go. The reason I say so, is because people will pay any price for life, and I think it just creates to damn much potential for predatory trade practices. I think that is the right way to characterize the USA's current, mostly-capitalized system of providing health care - predatory. It has gotten to the point where it is starting to look like war profiteering, except in the "war on cancer". (Most of that above diatribe was for Tom and Spike's benefit, have at it boys.)

Anyway, back on the subject. I don't feel particularly compelled to talk much about Athens, since we already did all the Athens touristy-stuff at the beginning of this vacation, and because we just got off the plane, and because we intend to just spend our last few days here just shopping for knick-knacks and chilling out.

Instead I think I'll see if I can continue on and give Rhodes a better review. The only other really interesting archaeological destination (besides the city of Rhodes itself) is the Acropolis at Lindos. I know I mentioned it before, but it really is worth a visit. The hike up the plateau is a decent one if you are looking for a work-out, but if you aren't, they have donkey rides for 5 euro which are a ton of fun. I say so only with a slight sense guilt about it though, as my particular steed was clearly straining under the weight of my fat ass, particularly on the last switch-back. The view from the top of the acropolis is really sweet.

The old town of Rhodes (in Greek it is "Rhodos") is packed in behind some well-preserved walls, and being inside them among the various shops and restaurants felt a little bit like living in an alternate dimension, where architectural advances were frozen in the dark ages but electronics and chemistry had still advanced enough to produce cheap digital watches, tacky sequined T-shirts, and tons of plastic refrigerator magnets. In the center of the old town is the "Palace of the Grand Master of the Knights of Rhodes", but for some bullshit reason ("an administrative conference") it was closed on Monday when we went to visit it. However, there was also a clock-tower nearby and this was open, so we paid our fee and went to the top to survey the old-city and beyond. It was only from this vantage did I notice how many ancient (and I suspect mostly unused and purely historical) mosques are in Rhodes. I had read about how Rhodes was under the control of the Ottoman empire for some 400 years (until around 1912 when the Italians invaded), and so it was obvious to me that many remnants of Islamic culture should remain, but seeing it really made me connect to that fact a little more and now I have a slew of other questions regarding the history of this place (for instance, why do all the guidebooks I read here refer to the period between 1523 and 1912 as a time of "decline and darkness and oblivion" for Rhodes? surely something good must have come from Ottoman occupation?) On a less complex level, I also noticed that many (all of?) the mosques had not only crescent moon symbols but also stars decorating their characteristic towers. I understand the whole symbolism of the crescent moon in Islam, but I hadn't previously known about the stars, which were incidentally, the exact same shape as the stars of our own American flag. It had me wondering if there may be a connection between the star symbols of our flag and the star symbols of Islam, and if Muslims feel on some level like the "stars and stripes" and what it represents somehow co-opt the symbols of Islam? Readers? Any thoughts? Might it be anything like how fundamentalist Christians would act if the porn industry started using crosses instead of "XXX" as their identifying symbol? I'm not trying to imply that this overlapping symbol-use might be the root of all east-west tensions. I'm just wondering if Muslims have noted this overlap and if any even care about it.

OK that's enough for now. I'm glad to back back in a happy mood again.

Opa!

Update June 22, 2007: Wikipedia and a couple of other sources have some good info regarding the star and crescent musings.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

When you come home?

Anonymous said...

i've rarely in my life been a communist, but as an unrepetent socialist, i do believe that the essentials, food, utilities, etc. should be under state control for exactly the reasons you point out, i.e. the temptation to screw the public when one owns/controls the means for another's survival. Water, food, heat one must have to live and should not be controled by arbritary 'market forces.' I also dont buy the whole invisible hand shit, prices, supply and other invisibles are actually pretty consciously controlled by the industries providing the service/product. Price control, as you have realized, can be a good thing. Again, to emphasize, i dont think cartier watches should regualted so that every joe-schmoe can own one, but one shouldnt have to worry about their winter heating bill going up $150 because of some executive's whim.

Casey said...

Joe: I'll be home Wednesday night.

Spike: Of course, Tom's answer to your comment (if I may be so bold to say) might refer to the idea that executives don't set prices based on a whim but profit margins are based on at least two things as I understand it, competitor's prices and the demand for product.

The real question in my mind is that if the demand is fixed and high (as it is with things like food and health-care), is competition enough to keep prices low? I don't know if it an artifact of farm subsidies, but it seems that competition is enough to keep prices low for food. So, assuming again that farm subsidies don't factor significantly, why don't we see the same effect in healthcare in the USA? Or is that just it? If we did not have farm subsidies in the United States, would we all be paying 4k$ in food bills every month?

If so, I still am starting to think I prefer farm subsidies even if it just means a dislocation of how I pay for food (ie through taxes rather than directly). I can't help but just be totally blown away by the ease and expense of healthcare here in Greece as compared to the USA. The trade-off (higher taxes instead of paying privately) seems to give way better results for the everyday sorts of problems. I've heard rumors that higher levels of care are much harder to get in countries with nationalized schemes. I don't know if this is true or not but even if it is, it seems to me that the greater good lies in sacrificing the specialists and supplying more generalizts for the masses and the smaller more common problems (assuming that one would have to choose between these options).

Anonymous said...

*sigh* Fucking hippies.

Tom said...

I'm trying to stay out of this one...

but I'll post when I get back from lunch.

Tom said...

Aw hell. Screw you Casey for getting me into this one...

Spike writes:

"one shouldnt have to worry about their winter heating bill going up $150 because of some executive's whim"

For the record...this particular conundrum is the product of the regulation you argue for...the BGE hikes are the result of a price freeze implemented by the PSC when the utilities degregulated under Glendening..and under a Democratic state senate. The price hikes are not the insipid plot of a CEO looking to profit, but of a company who was forced to keep prices under the market value for so long. I think the situation is reprehensible. The legislators who did this must have imagined that over time, merely because of inflation, let alone upswings in the fossil fuels markets, the actual price would rise forcing either the company out of business or the rates to go up all at once. Much better for rates to go up incrementally...this legislation again favors the rich who have the means to absorb 150% utilities increases.

I'm not claiming that BGE is not a profitable company, but the Maryland division of BGE has been operating at a loss for some time now because of this short sighted legislation. Once again we see a short term decision with long term ramifications.

Spike writes:

"I also dont buy the whole invisible hand shit, prices, supply and other invisibles are actually pretty consciously controlled by the industries providing the service/product."

No shit...companies set prices. But how they determine these prices is not by chance or even avarice. Casey is quite right to point out that the market determines price. This is just an unmitigated ignorance of economics. For instance, why aren't home prices in Baltimore equal or exceed prices of home in DC? To deny the "invisible hand" you must deny the idea of voluntary exchange. What would happen if I own a gas station and I decide to sell 93 octane for $100,000,000 a gallon? Do you think I would sell any gas? Let's take your conspiracy theory one step further....suppose I own all the gas stations and all the gas in the world and I decide to sell all gas in the world for a million per gallon. What do you think would happen? I'm still not going to sell any gas...ok maybe to some rich ass Dubai sheiks, but really...people will be producing electric cars faster than you can say Adam Smith. THAT my friend is the invisible hand of the market at work. That doesn't mean that as the gas owner I am not trying to set my price as high as I can, but you have to remember that demand is downward sloping which means the higher the price I set the less of it I can sell. This is true for ANY good.

The other key point about the invisible hand is that if there are 2 gas owners in the world and I sell at a million bucks...if I can afford to, I will price under that. We could collude to sell gas at a million each, but if I see that by dropping my price half a million I can triple my revenues...I sure as fuck am going to stop colluding.

BTW, this is a whole field of microeconomics called price theory that is tied into game theory...VERY interesting and cool.

I just want to point out that the invisible hand is one of the most awe inspiring mechanisms I have ever studied and much in the same way as the concept of infinity, it is impossible for the human mind to grasp. Prices are the endogeneous variable...they are the RESULT of the market mechanism...NOT the cause! Reading the Socialist Calculation Debate was what really made me understand the market pricing system and just how beautiful and elegant it is.

Note:
Look up the concept of price signaling...very important to all this.

Casey writes:

"competition enough to keep prices low?"

Yes. But only if it is real competition. Neither food nor health care faces real market risk. That being said, Spike and I were talking and I doubt we can implement either free market or totally subsidized health care in this country without radical, painful, costly overhauls.

Casey writes:

"So, assuming again that farm subsidies don't factor significantly, why don't we see the same effect in healthcare in the USA? Or is that just it? If we did not have farm subsidies in the United States, would we all be paying 4k$ in food bills every month?"

Farm subsidies do not keep your food prices that low. 99% of farm subsidies go to huge agribusiness. One of the things I want to work against is the effect of these subsidies on world markets. The US, EU and Japanese agri-subsidies in particular cause worldwide starvation and keep developing countries in poverty. Again, messing with the market pricing has disasterous effects.

Note:
Read about the effects of price controls under Nixon and in Britain after the WWII and its connection to healthcare.
http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=1201

Tom said...

Oops I wrote:

The other key point about the invisible hand is that if there are 2 gas owners in the world and I sell at a million bucks...if I can afford to, I will price under that. We could collude to sell gas at a million each, but if I see that by dropping my price half a million I can triple my revenues...I sure as fuck am going to stop colluding.

I meant to say if HE sells at a million bucks...if I can afford to...

Tom said...

Socialist calculation debate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

http://www.mises.org/econcalc.asp

http://www.mises.org/store/Individualism-and-Economic-Order-P255C0.aspx

and Oskar Lange (1936) and (1937)

Also,

http://www.econlib.org/LIBRARY/Essays/rdPncl1.html

Casey said...

Ya, I think price controls are a bad idea, but what about subsidizing? That's really more in line with what I'm thinking. Let me use our current highway system as an example. At the moment, we are all taxed and a certain percent of that income tax goes to maintaining roades. This system is what I'm referring to as a "road subsidy". It might not be the right jargon, but I think it will serve well here. I'm specualting, and maybe Tom, you could confirm, but I expect that the amount of money we pay for roads, via taxation, is far less than what we would pay than if the road system was entirely privatized. I say so because I expect that there are economies of scale that are playing into the equation here. That is, per-road maintenace costs for an institution that owns and collects tolls on just one road will be higher than that of an insitution that owns 10 roads. Right?

If you go one step further and just create a legal monopoly, in theory, costs will be as low as they can possibly be, because scale has been maximized. This of course completely ignores all the (valid) arguments about competition, but in the case of roads, I don't think it is really possible to have competition. I mean, you just can't establish competing road systems for a city can you? Maybe you could create competing road systems that connect cities, but in each case, the most competitive road will be the one with the shortest route, and physics doesn;t allow one to change that, so once again, no real competition. Another way of stating it would be to say that road systems have fixed or inelastic demand (high).

So, that being said, if we subsidized and nationalized healthcare, would we see the same (speculated) reductions in price that we see with roads? The demand for docs will be similar, and as long as people still get to choose which practice they get thier healthcare from (much as people currently choose the best road to travel for thier needs), why shouldn't it work? I feel like right now, the reason for such high costs of healthcare is because each practice (and in many case each individual doctor) has to shoulder all thier own costs, thus losing all the benefits of the economies of scale. If docs were to pool thier costs into one big nationalized legal monopoly, wouldn't it be better for everyone? Not price controls, just free healthcare with docs paid according to the GS system or some other compensation system that recognizes achievement and seniority, but which is uncoupled from the costs of running a business like a medical practice. You could even still permit private practices to exist just as they do now and allow them to set thier own prices and run thier own business. They could provide the services not provided by free clinics (or a higher standard of service), and charge accordingly, but all the folks with routine or mundane problems (the masses) would have the option of "free" (tax-subsidized) care. What are the problems with such a set-up? to me, it just sounds vastly superior, especially having seen it in action.